Doris Burke still adores Gregg Popovich

You may know Doris Burke for her television roles and uncomfortable interview with Gregg Popovich, but she was also once a star point guard on the Providence women’s basketball team in the 1980s. In 1999, Doris was inducted into the Providence College Hall of Fame.

Burke has been involved with the broadcasting industry since 1990, starting as a radio analyst calling Providence women’s basketball games. When she’s not busy doing color commentary for college basketball games at ESPN, she is hosting the NBA Countdown show with Jalen Rose and Avery Johnson.

I had a chance to chat with Burke this week on a rare day at home in Rhode Island. She took a break from catching up on filing expenses and preparing duck confit and roasted vegetables for her two kids to talk about her career, becoming an Internet sensation, an athlete’s responsibility to the media, her thoughts on being a female in a male dominant industry and more.

This is the most important question I have for you. Do you know that you’ve become an Internet sensation this season? The clip of you showing off your handles in heels on NBA Countdown has been passed around online and you also threw a perfect behind the back pass to Jalen. Is this becoming a recurring theme on the show?

[Laughs] Jalen and our producer on NBA Countdown -- who are far more active on social media than I am -- brought it my attention, and told me how people were reacting to it online. Here’s the backstory: Jalen likes to have a basketball in his hand during the broadcasts. So one day, I was hanging out and waiting for the show to start, and I told Jalen, “give me the ball, you’re not the only one who can handle it.” And I started screwing around and dribbling.

Unbeknownst to me, Jalen and our producer started conspiring to give me the ball on air without me being aware of it. So one night, Jalen hands me the ball while we’re live on air. I didn’t know how to react so I didn’t do anything with it. I can’t remember what Jalen said to me afterwards but I took this as a challenge that I wasn’t going to back down from.

So the next time he handed me the ball on air, I decided to dribble with it, and now it’s become a thing on the show. It’s funny, because dribbling was always the best aspect of my game. That’s one thing I’ve retained from my playing days.

Speaking of memes, have you seen the NBA 2K15 glitch where you slide out of screen at super speed?

Oh my god, that’s so funny. I was just showing my kids this clip of YouTube last night of me playing as Derrick Rose in the game. We were literally falling down laughing. And yes, the glitch is absolutely hysterical. When I saw it, I was like, ‘Where am I going??’

You said that dribbling was the best aspect of your game. You were obviously a very accomplished point guard at Providence. If you could be self-critical, what was the worst aspect of your game?

Shooting. At Providence, defenders always gave me a huge cushion on the perimeter. My jump shot was the worst.

It’s so funny because I saw Jeff Van Gundy and Mark Jackson on Christmas Day, and we were talking about the clip of me dribbling on Countdown. Mark told me that I still got game, and I told him, ‘Well, I still can’t shoot it.’ Of course, Jeff chimes in, ‘You are the only white point guard who can’t shoot the ball.’

Do you still play at all?

No. Occasionally my son Matthew -- who is 20 years old -- and I will go to the park and take some shots. But competitively, no, it’s been a long time. When my son was born, I was still playing in a summer league in Rhode Island. Six weeks after I delivered Matthew, I played in a league game. And you’re familiar with the expression, ‘The mind believes, but the body would not follow?’ I realized that I couldn’t play the game at the level I was accustomed to anymore. So I turned my attention to golf instead, and I’ve absolutely fallen in love with it.

You started playing basketball when you were seven. How impactful has the sport been to you?

My dad was a construction worker. I was the youngest of eight kids. There were not a lot of extra resources around. So my main goal was to get a college scholarship, because I knew that without it, I had very little chance of furthering my education. I don’t want to overstate it, but basketball changed my life. That scholarship changed my life.

Basketball also provided a good measure of my self esteem. I excelled at basketball, and when you excel at something, you gain confidence from it. I remember when I was at Providence College, I always joked that I had bad skin, bad hair, bad clothes, you name it. But the one thing I could do, the one thing that always made me feel good about myself, was when I had a chance to step on the court and play.

You were coaching at Providence when the assistant athletics director at the school asked if you’d consider doing radio for women’s basketball. At that point, did you envision a broadcasting career for yourself?

No. And it’s almost a laughable notion to me that I’m in this industry because of how shy I was off the court. I was, at times, painfully shy as a kid and all the way through college. It was probably a good thing that I started on radio. Back then there weren’t a lot of people listening to Providence women’s basketball games on radio. I had no formal training so It afforded me a chance to learn the business. It takes time to understand the mechanics of the game. As a color commentator, you have to get in, make your point and get out.

Is there a part of broadcasting a game that you came to appreciate once you were part of the process?

The part I marvel is at how the play-by-play person -- whether on radio or television -- is able to handle so much traffic during the game. Someone’s always in their ear as they’re talking, and it’s incredible how they have to continue a cohesive thought live on air while someone’s giving them instructions.

How long did you take you to get comfortable in broadcasting?

Every telecast, I still have butterflies and a little bit of nerves. But I think the nerves help. It elevates my attentiveness. I’m always telling myself to not look like a fool on national television. The fear of failure is a great motivator.

You entered this industry almost by accident. Have you ever thought about what you would be doing instead if you didn’t get into broadcasting?

No question. There’s not a doubt in my mind I would be a high school teacher and coach. When I left high school, I told myself I was going to get a major in education and be a high school teacher and coach. That was definitely the original plan.

Are you surprised I still haven’t asked you a question about your (in)famous interview with Gregg Popovich?

[Laughs] No. Because I know it’s coming.

I feel like you’ve answered all the questions before, including how emotionally distraught it made you. So my only Pop question is: are you tired of talking about it? Because I assume you still get asked about it all the time.

I’m not tired of talking about it, but I will say it never gets easier. My producer didn’t know that I was blinking back tears after that interview until I told him this Christmas. He didn’t know I was that worked up over that moment. I told him, ‘Yes, I adore Pop, but it doesn’t make those moments easier.’

But he’s said a lot of kind words about you. You recalled in another interview that he once told you, ‘Doris, you’re a basketball person. You get this.’ It meant the world to you.

Yeah, Mike Breen always tells me he wishes he could say on air how much Pop likes and respects me, just so people know. And it’s funny, because a while back, I took some heat for when I interviewed Kevin Durant

[Editor’s note: After much criticism, Doris issued a response afterwards].

A writer from Oklahoma City basically said this is the same reporter who is constantly made a fool of by Gregg Popovich, as if I was the only one who’s had to go through that with Pop. If you follow the NBA on a regular basis, you know how Pop is. But the casual viewer, of whom there are many, they just tune in and see the interview and they don’t know the backstory.

What would you say to people who are critical of Pop. Because there are people who don’t see it as him showing off his sense of humor, but in fact, he’s being a jerk.

There’s too much to like about Pop to judge him based on those moments. Listen, we’re asking coaches to talk to us in a moment of competition and interfering with their job. I get it. I understand his objection to the process.

But then there are also players who object to the media process as well. The most recent example is Russell Westbrook giving the same response to every question in a post-game scrum and even telling a reporter he doesn’t like him. Do you think players have a responsibility to give reporters something of substance to work with?

I absolutely do. I haven’t been following what’s going on in Oklahoma City, so I’m not in a position to comment about Westbrook’s situation directly. But there’s a part of me that understands his impatience with questions he’s already answered and has been answering since he’s entered the NBA.

[But] I think that reporters deserve a measure of respect, provided that those reporters have acted and conducted themselves in a very professional manner. In general, these athletes and coaches are incredibly well paid, and there’s an inherent and fundamental responsibility from professional athletes to stand and answer questions when things are going well and also when things are going poorly.

Is there an athlete who you think does that consistently?

I’ve always admired Paul Pierce. Going back to his days with the Celtics, there were times when they lost a lot of games. But every time I covered him, he recognized that as the captain of the team, there was a responsibility to be met. So whether he was playing well or not, he always embrace that responsibility.

How about an athlete who you’ve seen grow more comfortable with the media over time?

Because I’ve covered college and the pros, I’m fortunate to see guys from the time they’re in college to the time they’re in the NBA. One guy who has changed drastically for me is Derrick Rose. When he was a freshman at Memphis, I had a chance to speak with him once after shootaround. He was so shy that I don’t think he made eye contact with me once during our 10-minute conversation. He was soft spoken, he had his head down and I had real trouble picking up what he was saying.

Fast forward to now. I light up when I see him because he’s matured so much. He’s been put in some adverse conditions with his injuries and the some of the criticism he’d received while playing in his hometown. He’s just a completely different person now. And listen, we all go through it. No one wants to be judged by how we act when we’re 18.

What’s a piece of advice you would give to aspiring broadcasters?

People will sometimes ask me if there’s somebody that I emulate. And I always tell people you have to be yourself. If you’re not genuine, the viewer will pick up on it. They’ll know if what you’re doing seems forced and is outside of yourself.

What about a recent conversation about broadcasting that’s helped you continue to improve your craft?

I was talking to Jay Bilas at a college basketball meeting about a year ago, and we both said we’d like to cut our in-game content by a third. In other words: we need to stop talking so much.

That conversation is still on my mind quite a bit during telecasts because I feel like we all have a tendency to overtalk. We’ve done so much prep work as broadcasters and there’s a desire to share all of that information. But at the end of the day, our responsibility to to help the viewers enjoy the game and provide them with access to information that they’re not privy to. I’m working on cutting down the overall content when I’m on air. I still struggle with it.

You’ve said before that your kids are the hardest people on you. What kind of constructive criticism have you received from them?

The one thing that was hard for me while I was coming up in broadcasting was understanding that, to a certain degree, this was an entertainment industry. I was watching a game with my son a while back and the announcers started to laugh. They were clearly enjoying the game and each other. And my son looked over at me and said, ‘Mom, what you don’t seem to realize is, when you’re having fun, we [as the viewers] are having fun.’

Because I’ve always covered men’s sports for the most part, as a woman I’ve always felt like as a color commentator I needed to prove myself, to show people I know what I’m talking about. I kid you not, it took me 15 years in the business and Dick Vitale saying over and over again, ‘You gotta have a little bit of fun, people aren’t tuning in to hear how smart you are, they want to watch their team. They’re looking for a little bit of diversion. It’s okay to enjoy something you love.’

As for what my daughter tells me, she always tells me to smile more. Sometimes it feels like I’m getting a bad report card from them.

As someone who’s made it this far in broadcasting, and as a woman in a male-dominant industry, do you see yourself as an inspiration to other women who are just getting started or aspire to be in this business?

No, I don’t necessarily see it that way. I will say this: I’ve had women reach out to me and tell me how much they appreciate the work that I do, and that makes me happy. I’m also mindful that I’ve been given some unique opportunities. I know that there is a young woman out there who is going to be put in a position in the future to go well beyond the places that I have gone. I want the next woman to hopefully have it a little easier because of the way I conducted myself. My hope is for women who come after me to surpass everything I’ve done and I hope I’ve helped them get there in some small way.

You’ve also been outspoken about how, inevitably, appearance is an important thing in this industry, for men and women.

There’s no escaping that this is a visual medium. There’s also no escaping that women have been judged differently than men in this industry. You cannot escape that fact. I do think that increasingly, employers are concerned about content and credibility and presentation. And I always say this to young female journalists: be as prepared and professional as possible, and worry about nothing else. If you do those things and just let the chips fall where they may, you’ll go to where you want to go.

There’s not a single one of us, not a man or woman out there, who would not want to be considered attractive. Everybody wants that. And I mean that from looks, to personality, to character. All of us want to be considered attractive.

But the reality is I don’t want to be evaluated any differently than anyone else. I want to be evaluated based on the content of my coverage, not how my hair looks, not what my waist size is, or how my legs are. Just evaluate me based on the content of my coverage.

Who’s your dream interview subject outside of basketball?

It would probably be Barack Obama. I think recent events have clearly shown that we have a long way to go where race relations are concerned, so I would like to know the challenges he’s faced and the origins of those challenges. He would definitely be someone I’d want to speak to.

What about an event outside of basketball that you’d love to cover?

I would love to cover either the U.S. or British Open. I’ve become such a fan of golf. I would have loved to cover Tiger Woods in his hay day. In his prime, there was nothing I would rather watch than when Tiger was in contention on a Sunday. I found it such compelling and fascinating drama.

Lastly, are you proud of what you’ve accomplished in broadcasting?

The older I get, I’ve become more aware and prideful of the fact that I’ve been able to hang in there in this business for this long. As someone who didn’t come from a reputable Communications program and somebody who had to really grind and figure out the mechanics of broadcasting, and then to also grind to stay relevant, I’m proud of that. I would also say that I’m increasingly aware that I’ve been fortunate to have been in this business since 1990. I feel really fortunate about that.